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tv   Electoral College Meets to Vote for President of the United States  CSPAN  December 19, 2016 11:30am-3:01pm EST

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>> the certificates of vote have been received are in proper form. the chair now recognizes a lakhdar costello for the purpose of emotion. [inaudible] >> i second that motion. costello has moved that the meeting of the 2016 other tall college be adjourned. seconded by elector gately.
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those in favor signify by saying aye. those oppose? .he ayes have it i want to thank secretary of state jesse white and the illinois house of representatives for hosting the proceedings as well as the elect for college for their present -- participation in this historic event. i will ask all electors to remain in the room for a group auto following adjournment. this meeting is hereby adjourned. thank you very much. >> thank you, everyone. secretary?ted, they will do a photo right here in your seats. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit]
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the meeting has adjourned, the first of 50 states in springfield, illinois gathering at 10:00 turn time. we are keeping an eye on what will happen in harrisburg, richmond, virginia, lansing, michigan, and austin, texas. joining us now is the colorado secretary of state wayne williams. thanks for joining us on this busy day in denver. walk us through the process in your date, what will happen? guest: colorado law has a very specific statute, it's been upheld by the court in this election cycle. the statute provides that if an elector does not do their duty, then they have vacated their office. that is the basic process. first they will be asked if they wish to take the oath of office.
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if they do not wish to do that, that creates a vacancy. anyone who the electors will fill that on the list of alternates selected by the democratic party. if someone then turns in a not a legal vote, that also creates av can, according to the court ruling that individual women he replaced as well. host: we spoke to a number state senator last week. she is among those leading the so-called hamilton electors movement, she is a democrat trying to get republicans to put their votes in other states for donald trump. she filed a lawsuit that failed. can you explain what happened? guest: we had two of our faithless electors file a lawsuit seeking to overturn colorado's requirements to vote the state of colorado did.
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they lost in federal court. we also then filed a claim in state court for specific instructions. the state court gave the instructions to specifically provide that if an individual does not do their duty, then they will be removed. that is according to the state ruling. they appeal to the state supreme court. the state supreme court turned down their appeal. host: your counterparts in springfield, illinois just completing a group photo, 20 electors gathered in that state capital. what will be the process in denver, what is the actual process in your role as secretary of state? the oats of office are taken in the governor's office, and that we will step out into the capitol rotunda area for the actual casting of the ballots. it will be a nice ceremony, one that we have conducted every
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four years, here in colorado. we are confident that people will recognize the importance of giving voice to the nearly 3 million coloradans who voted in this election. ask you about the process our founding fathers put in place back in the 1780's. would they be satisfied, as somebody who studies voting procedure in this country, certainly as secretary of state, with process that has now on older for the 45th time, electing our next president donald trump? they: i think absolutely would be a day would be a little disconcerted over the conspiracy that have been attempted because their goal of having them meet in separate state capitals was that they could not conspire with each other. of course, modern media and technology allows for thing that were not contemplated in the 1700's.0s --
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setthe ability of states to their own process was something the founders believed in strongly which is why the designated the selection of those electors and process to the states. host: i want to share with our audience what polly said to us in our conversation and get your reaction. candidate gets 270 electoral votes, then the vote goes to the house of representatives. the house of representatives would then select the president and the senate would elect vice president. i might suggest that we have to use all avenues being we cannot just stand by. at this moment in history, i have a specific responsibility to speak up and to stand up and to shout, if i need to. i have not needed to so far, but
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to fulfill my responsibilities as an elect, my constitutional responsibilities, and my moral obligation to try to stop this person. president, he become and that is a possibility, i will acknowledge that, then that will be up to the house of representatives and the senate .o hold online on him if he does not abide by the constitution and behaves in a way that allows foreign countries to influence his decision because he owes them or -- i fear hets will use our country to make money because he seems to think the only important thing in the world is to make money. he only honors people who have made billions of dollars. that is not what america is
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about. we are about people who are ordinary citizens. as an ordinary citizen, i feel my responsibility right now to speak up. evene way, i do that though i do get criticized. but i have to accept that criticism. in some cases, i'm amused by it. ,his is the way i see the world i see my responsibilities. host: polly baca, a colorado elector in denver. wayne williams, the secretary of state in denver, colorado, your reaction to her comments? guest: i am concerned that someone tells the people of colorado one thing when seeking has nowte and then apparently adopted another position. take away the votes of 3 million coloradans is simply wrong. it is my hope that ultimately
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our nine presidential electors in colorado will give voice to the people's voice in colorado and vote for hillary clinton and tim kaine, as the people of colorado did. i appreciate the chance to visit with you. have a wonderful day. host: wayne williams, thank you very much for being with us. our phone lines are open, your reaction to all of this is from -- thest imposed washington post." joining us now is sean sullivan, who has been following all of his guest: thank you for having me. host: what do you expect to happen today? guest: i expect donald trump will be elected by the electors, but with a little bit more drama in thisds is normal process.
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this is usually a pretty academic going, they cast their ballot, there is not a lot of controversy or anything like that. as we have heard in the interviews we have done and as we have seen in the past few weeks, a lot of these electors have been receiving letters, askingalls, other pleas them to consider changing their vote, we don't want you to vote or donald trump. hillary clinton was the winner of the popular vote, things of that nature. to be clear, we have not seen a widescale effort enough to suggest that trump could lose today, but we have seen a few people here and there, democrats and republicans who say we are not necessarily going to cap the way our state voted. we may see more of that than normal, but on the whole, i would expect donald trump be elected because we are not seeing enough electors stray from him in the states he wants. story, thesterday's
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death threats, emails, harassing phone calls that these electors have been getting, what are you hearing? 538 elect errors. securetrump getting 306 him the presidency. guest: i spoke to an elector in pennsylvania a few weeks ago and they were surprised to see so many letters in her mailbox. she said i thought it was christmas curtsies and. others have received thousands of emails. this has been something that has impassioned people on both sides, a lot of people who do not like donald trump trying to hurt these electors not to vote for him even though he won the state, but you also have supporters of trump wanting these people to stand firm and not stray from him. both republicans and democrats have said they are not going to necessarily vote the way of their state.
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those people have been getting backlash from people saying you are screwed up the process, why not reflect the will of your voters? 11:00 because at illinois is the first date to hold the electoral college meeting in springfield. that wrapped up about a half hour ago. we will take you to harrisburg, pennsylvania at noon eastern time. when we saw in illinois, -tv, then we will be going to pennsylvania. these are cameras controlled by the state house. we will have that need from harrisburg in about 17 minutes. sean sullivan will be with us until noon eastern time. san is on the phone from francisco, republican line. .aller: good morning i want to thank c-span for providing a transparent look for us into this process. a couple of other states have
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voted at this hour as well. c-span has been pretty transparent with all of this. unfortunately, other mainstream media outlets, i think, gave this hamilton electors nonsense a little too much coverage. let's face it, there is no chance there are going to be too many defections. i think there was an article in politico that the rnc did a count and only got one elector from tennis -- texas said he was not voting for trump. i think the mainstream media gave too much coverage for these people who are essentially trying to overturn the election and with from their supporters into thinking that some kind of a looked world coup will happen when it won't. thank you. host: sean sullivan? guest: guest: interesting point, the hamilton electors group that he mentioned is a group of electors who have looked at some of hamilton's writings in the
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federalist papers and had been using that to justify the conclusion that if you have a candidate who lacks the basic qualifications to be president, it is incumbent on the electors to stop a person from becoming president. that is what they are doing, going to other electors saying you don't have to necessarily vote for donald trump because he won your state, if you don't think he is qualified for the presidency. the caller is right, that movement has not gotten a widescale level of support across the country, but i would say it is still notable it's happening. i said earlier, in previous elections, this tends to be an academic exercise. thedo not see groups like hamilton electors popping up in the first place. i would certainly defend some of the coverage, but we have made clear all along, and it's obvious to the people covering it, it is not swaying enough people to turn the election. notable, certainly, and because it is different from the past,
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but not enough to sway the outcome so far. five presidents winning the electoral college votes but not the popular vote. in 2000, george bush not winning the popular vote but electoral college. now in 2016, we see the same with donald trump. electoral votes but hillary clinton winning the popular vote on more than 2 million votes. here you can see in red, trump states, including pennsylvania, who for the first time since 1984, voted for a republican. justin is joining us from plain city, ohio. democrats line. good morning. in response to the previous caller, i respectfully disagree. the intention that this movement has is pretty warranted. wasink the whole commenting
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a reflection of the mistrust of mainstream media, especially against the right wing. that is sort of the difference. in regards to electors switching , reneging on what the popular vote in the state has been, once again, i think it's notable. at the same time, i think it does undermine the process that we have had in place since the ratification of the constitution. that is just my two cents on the whole thing. host: thank you for the call. john sullivan? guest: what you are hearing is what we are seeing play out. people on different sides with different opinions on the matter. you mentioned the popular vote. hillary clinton on pace to win the popular vote by millions of votes at this point. that is the other element here, that has raised this discussion
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that pops up from time to time, and most notably in 2000, when al gore won the popular vote but did not win the presidency. this conversation that has popped up across the country of, wait a minute, should we have developed for college, how does this work? you have somebody winning the popular vote and not the electoral vote. in general, people are starting to talk about that. a proposal that lawmakers are necessarily taking seriously right now, there is no mass movement to change the constitution at this point, but the fact that that is coming up in discussions is interesting. it has drawn a lot of attention to a process that normally does not get a lot of attention and has made everyday americans reconsider what their opinions of the electron college, popular vote, the way we picked .esidents something they don't normally consider time thinking about. host: if nothing else, a great lesson in civics history and
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american politics. chris suprun joined us over the weekend, he is that republican faithless elector, so far only one officially saying he will not vote for donald trump. he explained why and why he thinks the process should go on. my precinct convention, there were three of us who attended it after the primary. i was elected to go to the state convention from there. there was a secondary process to confirm that decision. ,t the state convention literally, it was kind of boring. i threw my hat in the ring. i don't think there were other candidates. i was recruited by the trump campaign to run for rnc. iran for elector, passing out bags of candy, shaking hands, making calls. it was that simple. so did you sign any sort of pledge that binds you, in any
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way, to vote for mr. trump, will you face any penalty for failing to do so? a three-parts answer yes, i signed a pledge, it will not be binding, and the penalty will be determined by voters in the future. when i campaign, i said i was not using it as a stepping stone, not running for congress or state house or even dog catcher. i said i'm running without ambition or aspiration. if there is a future political consequence, so be it, but there is no criminal consequence as there is potentially in other states. host: chris suprun, sean sullivan, he has been getting a lot of attention. really has. he is this all republican coming out saying he is going to go against the will of the voters and not vote for donald trump. who knows, we may see a few more of the people pop up as the day goes on. for now, he is the one that most of the country is focused on.
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he brings up an interesting point which goes on unnoticed. there is no federal law that binds a electors to vote for the person that won the popular vote in their state. the penalties, pledges that these folks sign as they become from state to state. it is not like he or any of the letter -- other electors are bound by statute that forces them to vote for the candidate that won in their state. that injected some degree of uncertainty in this. bottom line, still he is the only one. he says he is getting a lot of attention, certainly some blowback, and some support. what we are seeing is the contentious tone of the campaign spilled over into the postelection landscape. the campaign itself is over but there is still a lot of hard feelings on both sides. you have people who are trump supporters wondering why more
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clinton supporters are not willing to accept the outcome. benton supporters saying, hold on a second, this does not have to be the last word on things. that tone that dominated the campaign for almost two years did not end on november 8. i don't think we will see and into that anytime soon. i think we are seeing it play out in the electoral college as it's happening now. host: one of those days where the story is the process. we are also carrying this on c-span radio, so you may hear some background noise. we are also streaming this on our website at aaron from pittsburgh, independent mind. good morning. caller: thanks for the call. , dissentll correctly is the highest form of patriotism, from jefferson. this system this, that continues to look outdated, antiquated, we will run into the
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question, will any of these electors expressed dissent? my opinion of mr. trump is that he fails on the first qualification, which is, is he qualified for the presidency? ,hen we look at the guy modestly at best, he is barely qualified to run a business which he effectively inherited from his father. the second point i wanted to make was the nature of the ec. big business back in a day, slavery, we have raised those points. in modern times, big business takes the form of globalization, big energy, big war. i think we will continue to see that, just as an indirect consequence of the citizens united ruling, some of the other
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architectural changes in government. host: thank you for the call. sean sullivan? businessnald trump's interests continue to be a focal point. not just in the electoral college but as he prepares to take the presidency. some people are saying, wait a minute, it is not the fact that he is unqualified in some subjective way that we think the alleged war college should stop him or consider voting against him. some have pointed to his business interests and ties and that complicated web as a reason why they should pause. another reason, this is coming at a time when we are reading and hearing reports about russian intervention in the election and the cia report that concludes russia deliberately tried to intervene to try to help donald trump win the election. you have some electors coming out saying they wanted to learn more about that. who thinkjust folks we think donald trump is
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unqualified for the presidency and that is why folks should vote against him. you have concerns about the russian hacks, russian influence on the election, and his business interests. those three things have injected in much of the turmoil into this process, have driven a lot of the anti-trump sentiment that you are seeing, tens of thousands in some cases, that these electors are receiving. host: you discuss the so-called mapping effort by the committee to make sure there were no so-called shenanigans, that everything worked as expected. yesterday on fox news, the chairman of the republican national committee reince priebus had this to say. >> how many possible faithless electors are there who might jump ship? >> we expect everything to fall in line. we have one particular individual in texas. other than that, we are very confident that everything will
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be very smooth tomorrow, and this harassment from groups like and the democrat party should stop. it is what the american people demand. host: so what has been happening behind the scenes? guest: it is standard for republicans to do their due diligence, make sure they will not get caught flat-footed today or cms defection of electors turn away from trump. the important thing to consider, doesn't face enough a rebellion that puts his actual election in jeopardy, if you have 5, 10 republicans voting against him, the way that looks could be quite concerning bus and othere prie incoming officials. donald trump wants to come in and say i have a mandate to lead . i'm the person the american people chose. if you are seeing on national
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television and newspapers all of these republicans defecting from trump, it does undercut the idea that he was the one chosen by the american people, especially when he lost the popular vote. ,f you are the republicans writes pre-bus, the incoming operation, you want to make sure it is only a handful -- they hope nobody -- at least we have seen one republican say that he will vote against trump. you definitely want to limit that if you are republicans because of the way it will look to people as we head into the new year, the inauguration. they do not want to see a widescale group of republicans if itagainst trump, even does not put his election in jeopardy. host: carolyn from chandler, arizona. democrat line. caller: good morning. say first, i'm a descendent from a general from pennsylvania who fought with george washington. things are very different from
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one there were 13 states. we happen to live at west at this time. the electoralve college is doing a service to the country anymore. i also believe that we need to change some things regarding the election, as and there should only be the president and the congressional things on the ballot. i heard people in california have 20 different issues on the ballot instead of just the presidential election. also i don't believe people the vote that i have is discounted compared to a place where there are hardly any people at all. host: thank you for the call. sean sullivan? guest: that's an example of what we were talking about earlier, everyday americans looking at the political process now in a deeper way than perhaps they had in the past. she is clearly somebody who does not think the way things are done right now is the way they should continue to happen.
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it will be interesting to see down the road, you continue to hear calls from people, petitions, what have you, or l process,he electora or if that fades away and people channel this into another type of political movement. like you said, we are all getting a civics refresher here. for a lot of people, the last time they talked about the elect or college was in school learning about it for the first time. complicatedf a process but overall it's a simple idea. you have these states, people get together in these states, they cast their ballot. in the next congress, they will be reviewed. this is democracy at work, this this is democracy at work, this is how the founders designed the system. we are seeing that play out in real time right now. host: we are expecting a feed from harrisburg coming from the statehouse.
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we can show a picture, a very ornate state assembly room. there are some audio issues, these are not our cameras, so we are dependent on the state's providing the feed. we are also monitoring what's happening in richmond, virginia, where electors are also meeting. that state elected donald trump. we will go to it when we have some usable sound and pictures. meantime, cindy from rocking ham, north carolina. you are with us with sean sullivan. caller: thank you. i agree with the lady, i believe, from texas. and i'm just wondering, what happened to the generation of being outstanding? mr. trump is a braveheart and i voted for mr. trump. and in the past, i have voted
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democrat that donald trump characteroutstanding for america this time. and that is what made me feel like you really cared for america. i feel like the democratic system is burdening the system stuff rightis extra here at christmas. host: thank you. guest: one thing that is interesting that i looked at what i have reported on this and talk to electors and talk to be delivered to the elect source to peopletheir vote is that have said, if the situation was reversed, are you worried about setting a precedent? to essentially make history here and go against the will of donald trump? and eight four years years, there is a democratic president to his elected by the
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electoral college that some people think is not qualified? would you be ok with that? you heard a mixed reaction. some people said sure and others said no, i would worry about that. so it is important to keep in mind -- a lot of this is driven by artisan -- by partisan politics. the vast majority are urging are clinton supporters or democrats or bernie sanders. people who did not want donald trump to be president. so it is an interesting -- it is an interesting precedent. is a weighty thing. and that is something that electors are aware of. a lot of them might not necessarily be in love with trump but not a lot of them are willing to undermine the system. host: the elect chores in
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pennsylvania have gathered and they have completed the pledge of allegiance of the process is getting underway. let me thank sean sullivan for joining us from the washington post newsroom. our live coverage continues from pennsylvania. [no audio]
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>> please be seated. as secretary of the commonwealth, it is my honor to preside over this meeting until the electro-college has organized for the official transaction of business as provided in article two, section one of the constitution of the united states.
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it is your solemn responsibility to create a formal document for the transmission to the congress of the united states. the commonwealth of pennsylvania at the general election held on november 8, 2016. this being the day and hour appointed by the constitution and laws of the united states and of the commonwealth of clear the duly chosen electors to give their votes for president and vice president of the united states. the members of the college of electors will come to order. lead us in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the states of united states america.
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and to the nation for which it god,s one nation, under indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> thank you. upon the referent and ask him to invoke god's blessing on these proceedings. let us pray. you thanksd, we give for this good land which we have received as our inheritance. we pray that we may continue to be good stewards of all that has been entrusted to our care. a historyn, we have of sound government established by our founders for the sake of all who dwell in this land. and the freedom to choose those who occupy leadership positions. those who trust to leadership and authority, that we might seek justice to all people.
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with the 58th electoral college of the commonwealth of pennsylvania as they fulfill their constitutional duty in the election of the president and vice president of the united states. tonts them wisdom, courage provide welfare to all united states citizens. thinkch of us as citizens seriously of our responsibility to one another. the well-being of the society of our own generation. and all that we do. grant us grace to serve and honor your most holy name. we pray. amen. >> thank you. please be seated. chief justice saylor, deputy chief of staff corvallis.
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-- lovelace, distinguished electors and honored guests. commonwealthof the and temporary presiding officer of pennsylvania's 58 select world college, i welcome you to the chamber of the pennsylvania house of representatives. honor to convene the electoral college in this remarkable setting. this is the third electoral college i have had the privilege to temporarily preside. today's proceedings remain consistent with the procedures followed when they first electoral college convened in pennsylvania 227 years ago. is my belief that our commonwealth has one of the best electoral colleges ceremonies in the nation. before the end of the day, 530 elect doors around the country will cast their votes to select the president and vice president of the united states.
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the electoral college was established by the framers of our constitution as a compromise between those who advocated the election of the president and vice president by the state and those who support appointment by congress. under our federal system, the people of the united states vote for electors who, in turn, vote for the president and vice president. the votes you cast today will be certified and sent to the u.s. congress and the national archives. on january 6, 2017, they will be counted along with the other 49 states and the district of columbia in front of a joint session of congress. in accordance with the 20th amendment of the united states constitution, the president-elect will be sworn in on january 20, 2017.
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in 1788, james madison stated " we may define a republic to be a government which delivers and derives all that's powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people and is administered by persons holding their offices during good behavior. of theain, the citizens united states are able to establish their government by choice. america's continuing history testifies to the enjoying viability of our grand experiment in self-governance. as we know, president abraham lincoln and his gettysburg address stated that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from earth. we are still here today, ayers to this lofty ideal of elected governance. pennsylvaniall of
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as expressed by the majority of the 6 million citizens that the november 8 general election is in the hands of 20 members of the electoral college. invest our faith in you, esteemed electoral wars, that he will honor the voters, this commonwealth and our nation by adding a new chapter to america story of free representative democracy under which we live. let us now proceed with the appointment of temporary officers. for the purpose of carrying on the business of this meeting, i will appoint, without objection, the honorable marian k schneider and the honorable -- as deputies of the commonwealth as temporary secretaries. the honorable jonathan marks, commissioner of elections of pennsylvania as chief sergeant
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at arms. and the honorable deputy commissioner of elections as assistant sergeant election at arms. the chair recognizes the honorable deputy chief of staff and governor of the commonwealth of pennsylvania. mr. secretary. i have the honor to present communications in writing from his excellency, the governor of the commonwealth. >> thank you. secretary schneider will read the communications. >> pursuance of the laws of the united states, i can a tom wolfe
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, governor of the state of pennsylvania do hereby -- accordance of the pennsylvania election code, upon receiving the returns of the elect doors of the president of the united states and vice president of the united states from the election held november 8 2016 as laid before me by the secretary of the commonwealth. i have ascertained that the following electoral or four donald j. trump for president and michael are pence for vice president of the united states. barkett,her, mary downingudo, -- michael margaret ferraro. robert gleason. ash car. james macri lane. else tina pickett.
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andrew riley. carol sides. gloria lee snover. richard stewart. lawrence tapia's. christine taurasi. received 2 million, 970,733 votes constituting the greatest number of votes of the persons voted for, therefore, andthe persons duly elected appointed elect doors of the president and vice president of the united states to meet at the seat of governments of this commonwealth, being in the city of harrisburg on the first monday after the second , being then december
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19 sake of december, 82,000 16, agreeably to the laws of this commonwealth. and of the united states. where the respective terms prescribed by the constitution of the united states to begin on 82,017. day of january and to perform such other duties theiebold upon them under constitution and laws of the united states. signed, tom wolfe, governor. >> thank you. a certificate of ascertainment will be printed in full under the journal of the proceedings of the electoral college. will call theks role of elect doors. as your name is called. please rise in your place and answer, present. >> honorable robert asher. honorable mary brockett.
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honorable robert ozuna. honorable theodore christian. honorable michael downing. honorable margaret ferrero. honorable christopher gleeson. honorable robert gleason. honorable joyce costs. honorable ash car. honorable james macri lane. honorable alvina pickett. honorable patricia pocket. honorable andrew riley. honorable carol sides. over.ble gill really slow honorable richard stewart. honorable lawrence davis. honorable christine perretti. honorable carolyn bunny welsch.
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>> thank you. 20 electors, having answered to their names, we shall proceed with the business of the 58th presidential pennsylvania college. we are pleased to have one of pennsylvania's distinguished jurists to administer the oath of office at this time. the honorable thomas g saylor, chief justice of the supreme court of pennsylvania. a bible or holy book has been supplied. the oath will now be administered. >> would you please place your left hand on the bible or holy book and raise your right hand? do you and each of you solemnly swear or affirm that you will theort, obey and defend
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constitution of the united states and the constitution of the commonwealth of pennsylvania ? and that you will discharge the duties of your office with ?idelity so please say, i do. thank you. secretary? you chief justice saylor. please be seated. the next order of business is the election of the president of the electoral college. the chair recognizes the honorable richard stewart of cumberland county for the purpose of offering a resolution. >> thank you mr. secretary. resolved that the honorable robert a gleason jr. of cambria county be chosen president of this electoral college.
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>> thank you. >> are there any other nominations? if not, nominations are closed. those in favor of thethose in fn will except by saying aye. opposed, no. the eyes have it. the resolution is adopted. the honorable robert a gleason jr. is a unanimous choice for president of this college. [applause] the chair request the chief sergeant at arms to escort the
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president. the chair has the honor to present to you your president, the honorable robert a gleason jr.. [applause] >> >> thank you. chief justice saylor, secretary cortez, honorable electors, distinguished guests and governor wolf who will be joining us shortly, inc. you for participating today.
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thank you to all who helped organize and execute today's event. and the governor for hosting us at his residence later this afternoon. we want to thank the elect doors for choosing me to serve as the president of this electoral college. it is an incredible honor that i will never forget. today, we walk through history together. pennsylvania has always had an important place in american history as the keystone state. future generations will remember this election. as unconventional and fiercely competitive. history placed the commonwealth at the forefront as the election would be decided here. now, we sit in this magnificent house chamber as the first republican electors in pennsylvania since 1988. to give some perspective, our youngest elector was four years old at the time. we are just moments away from completing the electoral will of
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the people of pennsylvania and casting our ballots for the 45th president of the united states, donald trump, and the 48 vice president of the united states, mike pence. when donald trump and mike pence theyworn in on january 20, will be the president and vice presidents of all americans regardless of political affiliation or background. it is a good reminder that we serve as a peaceful assembly that will lead to another peaceful transfer of power between two rival political parties that continues to be the envy of the world. i know that donald trump and mike pence will be working to make america great again. for everyone. to each andk up everyone of us to help shape the future of our country. for me, this ceremony is the completion of a dream that is more than a decade own as a republican chairman. volunteers,k of
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staff, party officials and outstanding candidates who made this dream come true. my fellow elect doors, let us always remember the shared moment. ourtood up for constitutional system, followed our conscience, answer the call of pennsylvania voters, did our part by electing the next president and vice president of the united states, donald trump and mike pence. thank you and may god bless the united states of america. [applause] all right, the election of the vice president of the electoral college. the chair recognizes the honorable mary bar tech of northampton county for the purposes of offering a resolution. >> thank you, mr. president.
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honorablehat the joyce haas be chosen vice president of this electoral college. >> thank you. >> are there any other nominations? if not, nominations are closed. those in favor of the resolution will give their assent. those know? the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair request the assistance argent of arms to assist the vice president.
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the chair has the honor to present to you your vice president, the honorable joyce haas. [applause] thank you. good afternoon. i would like to extend my heartfelt appreciation to all of the dignitaries and to the special guests. the importance of what we do here today cannot be overstated. minutes, we will make the voices of pennsylvania voters heard loud and clear. when we cast our vote for the next president and vice president of the united states. donald trump and michael pence. as it has been previously stated, the road to this moment
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has been intense and competitive. however, just like with all elections in our great country, now is the time to come together and we will unite around our new president and vice president. voters who have elected a team that has given hope to pennsylvanians from ambridge to wilkes-barre, we all have stories of people who became engaged in the political process because of donald trump. last week, we welcomed our president-elect and vice president-elect back to pennsylvania to thank us for our support. votes,, as we cast these our country takes one more step towards a new era. will be an era filled with
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possibility and opportunity. for all americans. it will be an era in which men and women regain the pride and soulless that comes with the family sustaining employment. and it will be an era in which our nation, once again, leaves against the dangers facing freedom and our country and in our world today. electors, i am deeply humbled to have this chance to serve as vice president of the 58th electoral college and i think you for that honor. may god bless you and may god bless the united states of america. [applause] thank you.
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the chair now recognizes the honorable gloria snowbird of offering a resolution. >> thank you, mr. president. resolved, that the honorable theodore christian of ox county be appointed secretary of this electoral college. >> thank you. those in favor of the resolution will give their assent? those know? the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair now adopts -- the chair now recognizes riley for
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the purposes of offering a resolution. >> thank you. resolved that the honorable lawrence j tabor is be appointed parliamentarian of this electoral college. >> thank you. those in favor of the resolution will give their assent? those know? the resolution is unanimously adopted. chair recognizes the assistant sergeant at arms to escort the secretary and parliamentarian to their chairs.
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the chair extends temporary officers the thanks of their colleagues for the able manner of their presiding during these proceedings. thank you. without objection, the college of electors will adopt the form proceedings of the 2012 electoral college in pennsylvania as so far is applicable. the 2016 electoral college of pennsylvania is now organized. and will so advise the governor. without objection, the honorable pickettand else deana
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to call upon his excellency, the governor of the commonwealth, to inform him that the 58 college of electors is organized and ready to receive any communication he may wish to make. and also to extend an invitation to him to address the college. the committee of escort will now proceed in the performance of its duties. the chair request the chief sergeant arms to escort his excellency, the governor of the commonwealth of pennsylvania, to the house chambers. the governor is awaiting this call. he will be with us momentarily. the members will be at ease awaiting the committee waiting to escort the governor. at this time, while we are at
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ease, i would like to recognize the governor's cabinet you are here and we greatly appreciate them being here. secretary theresa bob zorn. secretary russell redding as the department of agriculture. secretary robin wiseman as the department of banking. chief of staff mary eisenhower. for they gary tennis department of drug and alcohol prevention. secretary patrick mcdonald, department of environmental protection. general counsel denise smiler. topper, general services. director marcus brown for the department of homeland security. commissioner teresa millard, department of insurance. mannarino,athy secretary will do now ski for
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the office of legislative affairs. gorelick. the department of military affairs. physician general, dr. rachel levine. the office of policy. nulty -- of labor secretary elaine mcnulty. we want to thank you for being here. and also you, secretary.
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and i missed one. the director of fema, thank you for being here. everyone, please rise. the electrons will come to order. collegeof the electoral , his excellency, the governor of the commonwealth of pennsylvania, tom wolfe. and the first lady. [applause] >> welcome, governor.
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>> thank you. please be seated. thank you very much for that nice introduction and thank you for being here. i want to thank the president, vice president of the electoral college. the officers of the electoral college. and all of the elect doors for having me here today. i want to congratulate you all on your role on this historic day. i would also like to take a moment to thank secretary pedro cortes and the department of the job that they did, once again. the employees and the staff of the department of state have done a really good job of hosting the selection. scrutiny foron of the department of states across the nation, pennsylvania, once
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again, delivered a safe and secure and convenient voting experience or the people of pennsylvania. his team cortes and are to be commended and thanked by the people of pennsylvania. can we give them a round of applause? [applause] so today. today we are here to honor a tradition that is at the heart of our democracy. the selection of a president to lead our country for the next four years. these fullcess of transition. the united states is unique around the world. it is special. we don't need armies, we don't need uprisings or violence to change our country leadership. people ind is 538 rooms just like this across the state country -- across the country.
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57 times before today, once every four years stretching back to 1788 to the time of washington and adams and jefferson and hamilton, the presidential electors of pennsylvania have come together to vote and certify an act upon the will of the citizens of pennsylvania. today is the 58 such occasion where article two, section one of the constitution comes to life right here in this room. it is a truly humbling experience for me to witness. and you should all be honored to be here as well. of pennsylvania. through the actions you take are historic. as prescribed by the constitution on the first monday after the second wednesday in december, we gather to follow through on the mandate given by the people on the first tuesday after the first monday in november. election day places power in the hands of those in this room.
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that is you. today, you will officially select the next president of the united states. you will follow the will of the people of pennsylvania. you should be honored to have taken part in this bit of history. so i am for you to savor the the ballot box. enjoy it. know that you are performing an thethat echoes back through united states history. it is the same action that has been carried out by pennsylvania and source centuries. and brought to the american like george washington, thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln, theodore roosevelt, franklin roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, john kennedy, ronald reagan and barack obama. it is a very important act. so congratulations on your precipitation -- on your participation and thank you, on behalf of all pennsylvania is for doing what you have done. thank you very much.
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[applause] thank you, governor will for your message. you are -- we are grateful to you for honoring us with your presence today. the chair request the committee of escorts to accompany the governor to his chambers. please rise as the governor is escorted from these chambers. please be seated. we are ready to proceed with the balloting for president and vice president of the united states. the chair recognizes the honorable -- of indiana county for the purposes of operating a resolution.
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>> thank you mr. president. read all that the elect doors of the commonwealth of pennsylvania here assembled in the chamber of the house of representatives at the state capital in the city of harrisburg, pennsylvania, in accordance with the provisions of the constitution and the laws of the united states and the commonwealth of pennsylvania do now proceed to ballot for president of the united states. >> thank you. those in favor of the resolution will give their assent. the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair appoints the following five individuals to act as tellers of the electoral college. sweeney, the honorable theles the row and the --
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chair requests that the assistant sergeant of arms assist the tellers to their seats. the chair directs the tellers to see that a ballot for the president of the united states
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is now distributed to each elect or. let us proceed now to the election of the united states. on his or or so right her ballot the name of the person for whom he or she votes for for the president of the united states.
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the ballot for vice president of the united states. the chair request the electoral college to preside over the election of the vice president of united states. >> the chair recognizes the honorable robert asher of montgomery county for the purpose of offering a resolution. resolve that the electors of the commonwealth of pennsylvania assembled in the chamber of the house of representatives at the state capital in the city of harrisburg pennsylvania in accordance with the provisions of the constitutions and the laws of the united states and the commonwealth of pennsylvania do now proceed to ballot for the vice president of the united
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states. >> thank you. thank you, mr. asher. resolutionvor of the will give their assent. resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair directs the tellers to see that a ballot for the vice president of the united states is distributed to each elect tour. each elect tour shall write on his or her ballot the name of the person for whom she or he votes for the vice president of the united states.
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>> thank you for conducting the election for the vice president of the united states. the chair directs the chief sergeant at arms to clear the ballot box.
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as the roll is called, each elector will come forward and deposit his or her ballot into the official ballot box for and the vice president of the united states. the secretary will call the roll. >> the honorable robert gleason. the honorable joyce haas. the honorable lawrence tape this. -- the honorable lawrence tabis.
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the honorable robert asher. the honorable mary burket. the honorable robert bruce udo. the honorable michael downing. the honorable margaret tomorrow. the honorable christopher gleeson. the honorable ash carrick. the honorable james macro line. the honorable else stena pickett . honorable andrew riley. the honorable carol sides.
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the honorable gloria lee snover. the honorable richard stewart. the honorable christine to ready. the honorable carolyn bunny wealth. the honorable theodore christian. >> the chair directs the tellers to count the ballots.
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once the count is completed, the tellers completely written report and they will advise the college of the result. i want to thank our electors for being here today. the chair recognizes loretto llano, cody harbaugh, mike earp, luke bernstein and jewel dukas.
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the chair recognizes the head teller. [applause]
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[chanting] >> the chair directs the secretary to require that in the open meeting of this electoral college in the commonwealth of pennsylvania, the honorable david urban certified on behalf that the vote for president of the united states was for donald j. trump at the vote for vice president was 20 votes for michael our parents. pence.michael [applause] >> the chair also thinks the tellers for the efficient performance of their duties. accordance of the law, it becomes our duty to certify the results. , the purposesro
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of offering a resolution. >> thank you. resolved that this certificate to vote for president and vice president of the united states replaced on the table and signed by the elect doors. [yelling] [protests] [applause] >> resolved that the certificate for the vote of president and vice president be placed on the table and signed by the electors. those in favor of the resolution will give their ascent? the resolution is unanimously adopted.
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bere are six advocates to signed by the electors certifying the votes cast by them for president and vice president. the electors will come forward and sign in that way there names are called. >> thank you, mr. president. the honorable robert gleason. the honorable joyce haas. the honorable lawrence tagus. the honorable robert asher.
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the honorable mary burket. the honorable robert judo. the honorable michael downing.
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the honorable margaret for -- margaret forerrero. the honorable christopher gleeson. the honorable ash carrick.
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the honorable james macro link. elstina the honorable patricia poprik.
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the honorable andrew reilly. in the honorable carol sides. in the honorable gloria lee snover. the honorable richard stewart.
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and the honorable christine toretti. in the honorable caroyln bunny welsh. the honorable theodore christian.
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>> signed documents must now be directed to the appropriate authorities. chair recognizes the honorable carol sides for the purposes of offering a resolution. thank you, mr. president. resolved that the president appoint one dollar store door to take charge and ensure that one package of all legally required documents is directed to the president of the senate of the united states in washington, d.c. by delivering them by
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registered mail. >> thank you. those in favor of the resolution will get their assent by voting aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it to the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair nominates robert bozzuto to deliver these documents. the package will be open with the other 49 states, the district of columbia on friday, january 6, tony 17 in a joint session of the united states senate and united states house of representatives for the purpose of determining the national electoral vote for the president and vice president of the united states. in addition to the sign the documents, must be distributed for the purpose of maintaining the public record. the chair recognizes the honorable richard stewart of cumberland county with the purposes of offering a resolution.
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thank you, mr. president. resolved that the president of .1 electorate to take charge and ensure two packages of all legally required documents are directed to the secretary of the commonwealth of pennsylvania, one of which will be held subject to the order of the president of the senate of the united states, the other to be preserved by the secretary for one year and shall be a part of the public records of his office . that one package, each all legally required documents, is directed to the archivist of the united states in washington, d.c. and to the honorable christopher c connor, chief justice of the district court of the united states for the middle district of pennsylvania, by delivering through registered mail. be it further resolved a copy of this college be filed with the secretary of the commonwealth. >> thank you, mr. stewart.
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those in favor of the resolution will give their assent by saying aye. .he ayes have it the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair appoints michael county.of cumberland the chair requested the electors reported an charge with the responsibility to seal and deliver all legally required documents meet here in the house chamber with the secretary of the commonwealth designee for further instructions as to their duties in meeting the following adjournment. the chair recognizes the honorable caroyln bunny welsh of chester county for the purposes of offering a resolution. president.u, mr. resolved that the president up i two electors to settle the accounts and expenses of this college of electors. >> thank you, ms. welsh.
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those in favor of the resolution will give their assent by saying aye. the ayes have it. the resolution is unanimously adopted. the chair appoints christopher maca lane ofames chester county to settle the accounts and expenses of the electors. the chair now recognizes the honorable patricia poprik of bucks county. >> thank you resolved that the secretary of the commonwealth be directed to have published in plan platform copies of the proceedings of the 58 college of electors of the commonwealth of pennsylvania and to be delivered to and distributed by the secretary of the commonwealth. >> thank you.
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those in favor of the resolution give their assent by voting aye. the ayes have it. the chair recognizes the honorable elstina to get of bradford county. >> thank you, mr. president. as all that the appreciation of the electorate be extended to the secretary of the commonwealth, president, and other officers of the college of samuel,ores, the pages, , mckenna, andnt for the, and all others efficient and satisfactory performance of the duties of their appointment. be it further resolved the college of unlike doors extend their sincere appreciation to the governor of the commonwealth for his participation in this proceeding. be it further resolved the college of electoral doors
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extend their series appreciation to the speaker of the house and the members of the pennsylvania house of representatives for allowing us to hold this historic meeting in this magnificent chamber. thank you, mr. speaker., ms. of the resolution will give their assent by saying aye. the resolution is unanimously adopted. we have come to the end of the press -- official proceedings. does the secretary have any announcements? >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. secretary. the chair recognizes the honorable ash khare we are worn county for the purposes of offering a resolution. >> resolved that the college of a look doors of pennsylvania,
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having met in a chamber of the house of representatives at the state capital in the city of harrisburg, pennsylvania in accordance with the provisions of the constitution and the laws of the united states and this commonwealth. having completed the business for which they were elected do stand adjourned upon the pronouncement of this addiction. thank you. .> thank you those in favor of the resolution will give their assent by saying aye. endlesslytion is an -- unanimously adopted. please rise for the benediction. >> let us ask god's blessing. for thegive you thanks blessing of this day and for all
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who serve faithfully in the name of this nation and this commonwealth and we pray your continual blessing upon all of us. we have many very traditions and backgrounds path to celebrate during these days of early winter. may we find encouragement and strength in the transforming love made known to us in a variety of ways. may our hearts be gladdened and filled with hope as we celebrate a new year, and may your blessing of god be upon us this day and guide us always, we pray. amen. the chair declares the 58th session of the other tour college of pennsylvania adjourned. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its
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caption content and accuracy. visit] >> and those cameras controlled by the state of pennsylvania and the audio cut out just as the event finished. concluding ceremony for the electoral college vote. they will get together again for years from now. live coverage continues. at the top of the hour we go to lansing, michigan. we have seen two states over hillary clinton, and pennsylvania going for donald trump. before we introduce our next guest, i want to show you what dr. robert hardaway said about the left for college -- electoral college.
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professor robert hardaway is with us from denver. he is a professor at the university of denver. thank you for being with us. guest: very pleased to be here, thank you. host: let's elaborate on what you wrote and what we have seen since november 8 and until today, the so-called hamilton electors preventing donald trump from becoming our 45th president. hamilton for ate lot of things that he said in the federalist papers.
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one of the things he advocated was for eliminating states and just like russia, have lines across the country. monarchicalcated a president who would be elected for life. but none of those proposals weren't ever adopted, of course. genius as he was in terms of the thencial -- creating financial integrity of the united states, none of those suggestions were adopted. he did say the electors should be outstanding people from the community. but of course every state now, since 1876, have said we will allow the people of their state to elect me a look doors who are pledged to a presidential candidate. we want to get your reaction to john podesta, former white house chief of staff, about the process, the elections , this from "meet the press." >> the question is if there are
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37 republican electors who think there are either open questions on donald trump based on everything we know about him is really unfit to be president of the united states. if they do, they will throw to the house of representatives. at the very least, throwing some doubt, but so far we have not seen any strong movement from 37 republicans to not vote for donald trump. guest: it is true that in the last 200 years, 17,000 electoral votes have been cast. ninehere between seven and electors have chosen to violate their oath and violate the law. it is against the law to break your pledge and at least 29 states. that is true but it has never affected an election. the electors are obligated by
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electors, all the of all states, are obligated to vote for the person that gets the popular vote in the state. they were not elected to exercise their independent judgment. if that were the case, an elector could simply choose joe blow. host: i was going to ask you, every four years we go through this process. it rarely gets this kind of attention. take us back to 1787 when the founding fathers were basically creating a framework of our constitution and government, the debate that ensued that led to the creation of the left or college -- electoral college. guest: it is really the basis of our constitution. when the founding fathers met in
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philadelphia, the small state were ordered not to participate, if they were going to lose their inht of one state, one vote any kind of national legislature. they were told if anybody starts to say you are not going to have one state, one vote, to leave the constitutional convention. it looked like they were about to, but at the last minute a compromise was put forth. why don't we do both? small state were concerned about losing their equal representation, one state, one vote in the legislature. the large states and some today believe it should be one man, one vote. the compromise that brought the country together was the senate, and we'd each state would have equal voice and the house of representatives, in which it would be one man, one vote. the electoral college is based on -- it is one of the tw of
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prongs of the compromise that brought the country together. as jfk said in the 1950's when republicans were trying to ,ismantle the electoral college trying to undermine our federalist system, jfk says if you are going to mess with one of those prongs, you cannot ignore the other. the first step would be to abolish the u.s. senate, which .any followers have suggested if you abolish the u.s. senate, then the electoral college would fall as well, but probably people would be better advised to abolish the senate first, have a constitutional convention, get rid of the compromise that brought the country together. but that is how it came about. that is why we have a constitution of the united states. dr.: we are talking with robert hardaway, an expert on the electoral college.
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he has written extensively on the process happening today around the country. i want to go back to a statement that franklin roosevelt once aid, that we created republic, not a democracy. what does that mean to you? well, it is very intertwined with the notion of federalism. one reason our country has been so successful is it balances the interests of local -- local interest with national interests. we have a constitution and a .ederal system based on states some people say we should have a popular vote election. that would not only undermine the federalist system adopted by the framers, but it would be totally impractical as well. we don't have a national election. every state submits its elect electors under the
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constitution. if we were to have a popular vote election, each state would have its own triggers for recount. some would say have a percent, 1%. some states are happy with the outcome, we are happy with the outcome. you may have 20 states having a recount. others will say if you raise enough money we will have a recount. it would be a national catastrophe. fortunately, we don't have that system. in 1960, the election was so close, if we had had a popular vote election, theoretically, there would have had to been recounts in every state. there couldn't because every state has a right to do it. some would not. if we had a popular vote election in 1960, a year in theh nixon, according to congressional quarterly, won the popular vote, republicans were
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very upset about the elect or college, tried to bring legislation to dismantle it. if we had a popular vote, we would not know who is president today. one of the beautiful things about the electoral college is it isolates certain states. in 2000, it was florida. in this election, we had recounts in a couple of states, some aborted, but can you imagine having a popular vote election having recounts in all of the states? trauma of florida, multiply that by a factor of 50 and you have some idea of what the result would be if we had such a system. host: you can join in on the conversation, our phone lines are open. we will get to your calls in just a moment.
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first, professor hardaway, i want to share a moment to moment that happened in harrisburg, pennsylvania, and albany, new york as electors meeting. among them, former president bill clinton. >> we are also honored to be at this proceeding with many elected officials from all across the state, important citizens from all across the state, and one very special new ,orker who we all call friend former president william jefferson clinton. it is my arm to welcome him today. -- honor to welcome him today. [applause]
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.> we may now proceed to vote i invite president clinton to join us in casting the first ballot.
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[applause] host: the 42nd president of the clinton, one, bill of 538 electors meeting in state capitals around the country as the process unfolds as outlined by the u.s. constitution. us from denver is robert hardaway, professor of law. what's interesting, as we watched the process, the simplicity of it all. in springfield, albany, harrisburg, and elsewhere. well, it is simple.
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up until 1876, the legislators actually appointed the elect ors gradually over time every state has said we are going to leave it to the voters of our state. when you go into the voting booth, you are not voting for obama or clinton or any of the actual presidential candidates, you are voting for joe blow who said if you vote for me, i promise when i go to the electoral college, i promise i .ill vote for a candidate so it is very simple. tweet from steve who says the u.s. senate was the awful compromise made to prevent your any of the majority. he says the president must be the popular choice of the people. your response to that sentiment? the senate ofs the united states and the electoral college, closely bound, the two prongs of the grand compromise.
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we have a federal system, some would prefer the russian system which is simply popular vote across the board. if we had a popular vote system in the 1950's, for example, one of the purposes of the electoral college is to ensure a candidate has brought support across the united states. in the 1950's, there have been an overwhelming popular vote for a segregationist candidate, at's say, which resulted in total popular vote across the country that narrowly beat out the other candidate. the electoral college prevents that. you must have brought support, you must be able to win states across a broad section of the united states. it is one of the more brilliant purposes of the electoral college, to ensure that if we had a popular vote election, as donald trump says -- and he is against the electoral college, --, at least he said he is he said he would have campaigned in four states.
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new york, california, texas, and illinois. that would've been the whole election. but we have a bigger election. we do not have a country like 1930'sor germany in the where you have 17 parties vying for election. presidents a minority can be elected. only three times in our entire history has the elect all college not come to the same result as the popular vote. that happens in parliamentary democracies as well. 1974, labor did not win the popular vote in england but they sent more mp's. they vote for their leader. that happens once in a while. ourened three times in history, 1960, 2000, 1888, and in the last election. that is our federal system.
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the beauty of it is it gives us a result. with the popular vote, if we have to have 50 court cases, 50 recounts, it would go on forever. i think the founding fathers knew what they were doing when they came up with a system that would give us a stable result. we don't want to be a country like italy where they do not have an electoral college and they have 17 governments in the space of a couple of years. it's a beautiful system. it's the basis of our constitution. end of theis not the process, we should point out, the electors sending the ballots to washington, d.c. the final step will take place the first week of january inside the u.s. capitol. professor hardaway, walk us through the process. guest: you have to be certified.
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you go -- the rows are sent to the congress. then they are certified in the congress. someone could make an objection that they are not properly rendered. for example, if somebody was coerced. we have heard many reports of elect doors being harassed, intimidated. you hate to hear those things, but if something like that actually occurred, that would be the time to bring it up. so the vote would be counted. we all remember that famous e as vicen video of gor president in the senate, counting those votes that resulted in him not being elected president. host: david is with us from clovis, california. our line for independents. caller: i am in favor of a popular vote.
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thaterstand the compromise led to the old tour college --electoral college, but in today's age, when the population just happens to be centered in a few states, it is still the majority of the electorate that saying we the votes want this individual to be president of the united states. i understand the intricacies of but when aal college states have the power to change the election in states, i dates -- think that no longer is a democracy. host: professor hardaway?
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guest: that is actually the precise argument for abolition of the senate. you have two senators from south dakota that have just as much voting power in the senate as california. that has been the argument for abolishing the united states senate. every 75 years, yes, we don't have an exact presidential electoralhere the count does not precisely meet the popular vote, that's true. but every month, every week we have legislation that binds us based on the u.s. senate. i have always said, if people are determined to undermine our constitution, and they are determined to undermine our federalist system, as john f. kennedy said, have a constitutional convention, get rid of the senate, and then the electoral college will naturally follow. you have to recognize we don't have a natural election.
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when you sit popular vote, you are assuming a national election. there is no such thing. each state has an election. each state can do their own recount. if you had a popular vote, there is no way to force a state to have a recount. what kind of recount would you have in a close election where 15 states decide to have a recount, it decide not to, others say if you raise millions, maybe we will give you a recount. it would be a catastrophe. it is the kind of catastrophe that our founding fathers wanted to avoid. host: you can send us a tweet @cspan. why do the totals per state matter when the overall total is not close? no recount is needed. state, it could be the total vote. as we have seen, for example,
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hillary clinton got 2 million more votes, but there were recounts in several states. if there is a close election in a state, under that state's law, they can have a recount. what kind of recount can you have when 15 states have a recount, 18 don't, others say if you have money we will do a recount. those go on. with court of appeals, it could go on month, maybe years. if you thought florida was bad, wait until we had got a popular election and you have 50 lord is going on simultaneously. host: three elections resulted in the president winning the elect or college vote but not the popular vote. it did not happen in the 20th century, interestingly enough. of course, it happened in 2000, the last election, and 1988. some people bring up 1776.
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that was because there was voting fraud in several states, and it was finally decided by a presidential commission and the vote by was by one vote, the president was elected in 1876. some people bring up the election of 1836. at that point, you cannot determine if there was a sync between popular and electoral votes because not all states provided for electors. the only three elections in which there clearly was a discrepancy between the electoral vote and the popular 1960,as 1888, 2000, because the congressional quarterly did say that the had won the popular vote. later on, some newspapers will say kennedy won the popular vote. you did that i counting votes for bird in illinois.
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it was a democratic slate. that pretty much was a clear-cut election in which the popular vote did not jive with the electoral vote. those were the three not counting the current election. we welcome our c-span audience as we prepare to go to lansing, michigan at the top of the hour. keith is with us from hartwell, georgia. republican line. i would like to see the electoral college redistributed to wear each state is pretty much equally represented, and therefore, the candidates would not go to a single battleground state but they would have to work to get the vote all over. host: thank you for the call. of course, each state has its own rules, it's electors are
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based on one representative guaranteed in the house of representatives, two in the senate. no matter how small a state is, it gets three electoral votes. that is a part of the grand compromise. if people are really interested in having the popular vote always jive with the electoral vote, simply have your state allocate electoral votes based on the percentage of the popular vote. there have been a number of bills proposed in a number of states -- a few years ago it was proposed in california -- where they could a proposed legislation where they would allocate our electoral votes in the same percentage as the popular vote. they didn't want to do that. there are only two states that do that, maine and the brusca. if people are interested in getting rid of the states and having a national election, the way to do it would be to have each state simply say we will allocate our electoral votes
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automatically. i have proposed one reform that would make sense is to make the electoral vote automatic. not have to go through the charade of having these little ceremonies. what happens when somebody does not show up? each state has a different role in getting a substitute. in one case, people didn't show up, they had to have an election , and they got a janitor to come in. what am i supposed to do? you are supposed to vote this way. it is nice to have the ceremony, but given the attention given to peopleremony and the haranguing and intimidating a electors, it would be better if we simply made the electoral vote automatic pay but people do not want to clean up the electoral college and fix the small things because they want a russian-type popular election where you have maybe 17 candidates.
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people say we still have a two-party system. no. may be the two-party system under a popular vote regime would carry on by its own momentum for a lan election or two, but the incentive for parties to get in, right now they lose that incentive because you do not get one electoral vote unless you get a plurality in a state. that is why we have the good result, definite result in election after election. the only time we have had a close electoral vote was 2000, and even then the recount was limited to one state. host: a lot of tweets based on your comment a moment ago. lori in kaplan -- encapsulates all of that. why is it that the electors are not awarded in percentage of each popular vote in the state? guest: it is up to each state. the constitution is clear. it only says how electors are
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determined in the number is determined by how many representatives they have in the senate and the house. how they allocate them is entirely up to the state. if a state wanted to say we are going to do it proportionally based on the population, they are free to do that. so far only two states have come close to doing that, maine and nebraska. are free to do but every state that has been asked if they want to do it have said no. thate are really concerned once every 80 years the electoral vote does not jive with the popular vote, as with happens in parliamentary democracies. if they are really concerned about that, abolish the senate. the other way would be to go to your state legislature and convince them to say we are going to allocate our electoral votes based on the percentage of votes for a particular candidate in this state.
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you don't need any constitutional amendment to do that. d.c.,dave in washington, a democrat. caller: good afternoon to everyone. as my professorial colleague mr. hardaway knows, there is no constitutional provision or federal law that requires electors to vote according to the results. in fact, some state laws, even though they ask electors to vote according to the elect all ,ollege -- electoral college they simply call them faithless electors and impose a fine. it is important for electors out there today to realize that they are not bound -- we live in a federal system. trumps state law. there is no constitutional provision that requires those electors to vote against their free decision and their
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conscience. the fine we know that is very small, de minimis. talking about 1876, we have a problem here that is truly regenerate a we have a foreign, hostile power that has been found by education by the fbi and cia to have interfered with the democratic process. host: before you hang up, tell us about yourself and your background. i am a professor of law, before that a practicing lawyer for 20 years. what we learned at yale is what we just told you. to put it simply, there is no constitutional provision or federal law that allows any elect or out there today. they are free to vote as their conscience tells them. look it up.
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get on the web right now. electors, reporters, you can see this. you may have to pay a $1000 fine, as some of you may have seen in various stories, but no beenoral has ever prosecuted in the history of our nation by failing to vote as pledged. mr. hardaway knows this, this is a fact. that is because there is no federal law. there is no constitutional provision against electors voting their conscience. in the most generous situation this country has ever faced and attributed hacking of our election by a hostile power. host: thank you for the call. we will get a response. .uest: everybody knows that even in a greater knows that electors can violate the law. there is no national law that requires them to vote because it
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leaves it up to the legislatures. ,he legislators of every state the majority of states, have made it a criminal offense to violate your oath because you are basically defrauding the voters of your state. you are representing, if you are an elector, if you vote for me, i will vote for this candidate. there have been seven instances in the last 200 years where people have violated the old. to say it is a fine, that depends on whether it is a misdemeanor, what type of offense it is in that particular state. we had a case last friday where one of the electors came into court and said, if i violate my oath, violate my representation and promise to the people of this state, would you punish me, and how would you punish me? the judge basically laughed him out of court. i will not tell you what will be your punishment. sureis professor, i'm
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abets if anybody aids and committing a criminal act, that itself is a criminal act. thaty to say it is a fine, depends on the state. every state has its own punishment. that is a given. everyone knows that they can do it. but i think the fact that only seven -- depending on how you count it -- seven or nine people have actually done it, never affected an election. i'm sure that if this candidate favored hillary, he would be opposed. the first i heard after the election was there was an elector in washington who said it hillary was elected, he would not vote for hillary. he said he would not vote for her because she was a criminal and so on. i think people would be pretty outraged, and they have been, when some of the promises to their state and a legislature provides that you are going to run as an elector based on your
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promise to vote for a particular candidate. and that ande commitment criminal act, there are consequences in almost every state, at least 29 states. that is neither here nor there, everybody knows that hearing that is not the point. advocated --ays do we really want a system where the electors can vote for anyone they want? they can vote for anybody. these electors are generally party favorites, party partisans . the governors of that particular party, it happens very rarely. the argument that they should change their vote and violate the trust that they had given to the people of their state based on their personal opinion because they do not like a candidate, i think, this professor would be quite called if that happen on a regular basis. it just doesn't happen. it has never affected an election. lance saying, state rights
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these to be respected and the electoral college needs to respect states rights. let's go to carry on a democrat line from spring lake, new jersey. hi, mr. hardaway. this is fascinating stuff. , i think the popular .ote is a nonissue it is a country run by states, it should be one vote for each state. if they were going to change the electoral college, it would be to that, where each state gets one vote. the governor can call it into washington, and it would knock out a lot of this shenanigans that we are looking at now. host: let's get a response. the grand compromise was
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a compromise. the small states wanted one state, one vote. that is the right they had under the articles of confederation. they were told by their legislatures, if anybody tries that, you get out of that conventional -- constitutional convention. there were those who were from pennsylvania and new york who said one man, one vote. the compromise they came up with is a very good one. it is the basis of federalism. it's the basis of our constitution. without that compromise, we would not have a constitution, almost certainly. we have our founding fathers to thank for that compromise. you wrote theoften cite you wrg "proponents for the view that electors were intended to exercise independent judgment to alexander hamilton's view that the electors should be made by men most capable of analyzing the
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qualities of dr. to the nation, but even hamilton clarified that statement by noting the people should operate in the choice of the electors." the fact that hamilton said they should be reputable citizens, i don't think that is a suggestion that they should violate what their legislature indicates. if the legislature says they have all said since 1876, we will at the people of our state choose the electors. i don't think the fact that hamilton said they should be fine, upstanding people suggest that the electors should go willy-nilly and exercise their opinion when they have told the people of their state, if you elect me as your elect or, i promise to vote for this particular candidate. the founding fathers said a lot of things in the federalist papers. hamilton said a lot of things.
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he wanted a monarchy, wanted a president elected for life, eliminate states, have arbitrary boundaries. those were all rejected. when people start citing hamilton, he was, of course, the founder of our financial system, and a great person and founding father. but no one listened to his suggestions about a monarch or a president elected for life, or any of that. that -- these are the founding fathers -- is inappropriate. have i'm not sure if you seen "hamilton" or can afford to get a ticket in new york, but whether that broadway show has played into the debate we are seeing today. guest: i think so. he saved our financial system. dollar and a sound sound financial system ever since hamilton. he paid off all the debt which greatly annoyed the people who
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twobought these bonds for cents on the dollar. now they get a dollar back. he set the precedent that this united states government, when they lend money -- when they borrow money, they will pay their debts. what is inalist 68, that, why is that so often referred to in this debate? people try to extrapolate from that statement that they should be upstanding citizens, try to extrapolate from that that if they are upstanding, they are chosen because they are so educated and so elite that we should defer to their judgment that the constitution as it was written says, no, we don't defer to their judgment. each legislature can determine how those electors are chosen. they decided to delegate that task to the people. the electors promise to the
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people they will vote for this candidate if they vote for that for him. the fact that a handful of electors have chosen to betray their trust to the people is not an argument for saying electors can do whatever they want. they can vote for a segregationist candidate, a nazi party member -- no. they are obligated by state law in almost every state, at least 29, to vote for the person that they promise to vote for, according to the popular vote of that state. host: finish. i'm sorry. guest: going back to the previous question, they can violate the law. anybody can rob a bank. just because you can rob a bank does not mean that it on a violation of law.
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just because an elector can violate his oath, just because he can betray the trust of the means -- the word "can" it but the power to do with it does not mean that he should not have punishment. it is not just find like a musical offense. it depends on the laws of the state. some are more serious than others, provide more serious punishments for that criminal act. sean is next from north carolina. democrat line. thank you for waiting. caller: professor hardaway, how are you? guest: very good, thank you. a little bit scruffy in the throat. caller: i can understand. comment,ust like to i'm currently watching this , and i am c-span live
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humbly honored to begin learning about this process at almost 30 years of age. i am a very proud conservative and i supported bernie sanders primarily in the elections in the state of north carolina. had once bernie sanders conceded, i threw my hat over to secretary of state hillary clinton. however, unlike many voters in this nation currently, i am extremely displeased with the way the electoral college and this year's election had turned out. i had seen an article back in november from "the new york post" on the internet that is implying exactly what we are currently discussing on c-span.
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according to the article which i'm currently reading, which states hold information that you are probably having a discussion , our founding fathers were actually afraid of " direct democracy." could you explain that a little bit to me? host: thank you. we will get a response. guest: actually, i think it was hamilton who said the electors are representative of the people . in a country like the united kingdom, members of parliament are representatives of the people and they vote. parliament is sort of their electoral college. the reason the founding fathers did not want to adopt that model was because they did not want the president to be beholden to the legislative branch, which is
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very much the case in parliamentary democracies. so they set up the other tall college --electoral college as a separate congress with only one function, electing the president every four years. but hamilton said they should be representing the people. i think that is what the legislatures have decided to do. we the constitution says is leave the choice of electors up to the legislature. for some years, the state legislatures actually chose them. if they had been afraid of the people, the constitutional framers, would never have left it up to each estate to determine how to allocate their electoral votes. sinceery legislature, 1876, have said we are going to delegate a choice of the electors to the people of this .tate i think that is the way it should be. if the united states,
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professor hardaway, were to abolish the electoral college, explain the process, what would it take? guest: the people say, it sounds great, let's have a popular election. we don't have a national body to even count those votes or to make rules about them. each state decides how they will allocate their delegates. i honestly don't know how you would have a popular vote, short of having a constitutional convention, and starting from scratch. there is no instrument to determine the votes. votes,nting of popular which is simply done by newspapers, and they often disagree. in 1960, the newspapers disagreed on what the popular vote was. how do you count, for example, popular votes in alabama in 1960 one the electoral slate involved some fortors for byrd,
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kennedy, some said we will count all the popular votes for that slate for kennedy, and that way we get a result that kennedy won the election. who will determine that? each state needs to determine it. unless we start from scratch, eliminate the senate, leave the election of president to the courts, the system we have as worked beautifully. we have been spoiled by it. you once every 75 years do have a situation in which the popular vote does not jive with the electoral vote. that is true. that we have gotten chama this stability. -- tremendous stability. the whole world admires our system. that is why we have had such peaceful transitions of power. the only time people have objected to this all system and said that is not my president was in 1860, when many of the southern democrats said lincoln is not our president.
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terriblethat exception, the system has worked beautifully. twice in the last 16 years we had a republican president who won the electoral college but not the popular vote. the debate ensues because of what we have seen with george w. bush and donald trump. yes, and it's unfortunate, but whoever comes out on the wrong end of that. for example, 1960, the republicans came out on the wrong end because they had the popular vote. they wanted to abolish the electoral college because of that result. i once heard an analogy. if you go to a football game and the score is 16-14, and you have everyone voting in the stadium -- it should be based on total yardage, not points. isn't that a better indicator of who is the best team? and you do that after the fact. and you always get the loser of
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the electoral college coming in wanting to destroy our federalist system. two times in 300 years? that is not a reason to fundamentally destroy our federalist system. host: we we are keeping an eye on the electoral college system. caller: i learned in eight-grade that is what amazes me -- my question is, why should overornia that put hillary on the populist vote, how many illegals voted? talking about fair, that is not fair. we would not want barbara boxer from california picking our
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president. host: thanks for the call. had two think you questions. with regard to california, that was the basis of the compromise. it was a small state like rhode island against pennsylvania and new york. -- states weres going to walk and said we will form our own country. compromise is the fundamental basis for our constitution. with regard to how millie -- many illegal his wounded, we will not know for sure. surveys will indicate the number of illegal immigrants who have registered to vote. you cannot really know that, at any time there is a proposal to require people to have voter identification or a card of some sort paid by the state, for some reason they do not want that,
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say it hurts minorities, but the same could be said for having a in anccount or flying airplane. i have skeptical of people who put a number on the number of illegal members -- immigrants who vote. host: thank you for your insights. we appreciate you joining us from denver, colorado. guest: thank you. it has been a pleasure. we take you live to lansing, michigan, the proceeding getting underway now. electoralage of the college monday on the c-span networks. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit]
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>> good afternoon. as provided under the constitution of the united states, the laws of the united states, and the laws of the great state of michigan, the 20 16th meeting of the electoral college is now convened and will come to order. please rise for the pledge of allegiance, led by state representative tom barrett. >> thank you. to the flagegiance of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. if you would remain standing
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-- thank you, tom. anthis point i would invite individual to come forward to seeing the national anthem. >> ♪ o, say can you see? by the dawn's early light what so proudly we hailed last gleaming?'s and brightht stripes broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight o'er the ramparts we watched
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were so gallantly streaming? glaree rockets' red airbombs bursting in nightroof through the was still there o, say star-spangled banner yet wave freethe land of the ♪♪? ♪ home of the brave [applause]
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>> thank you for that wonderful rendition. that was outstanding. if everyone would be seated, please. our invitation will be delivered by the bishop. indulgetime, if i may you and ask you to stand again for the invocation in honor of our governor and the lord and savior of our nation, who has made this nation great. god,hty and eternal supplying the needs of your people by the way of the cross. we bow our heads in the spirit of humility, giving thanks, these, and adoration for
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blessings of peace, tranquility, and prosperity you have bestowed upon our great nation. we sincerely appreciate your divine intervention in america's most recent national elections and the clarity with which you spoke to the voice of the electorate. as we gather on this historic occasion, to consummate the business of the electoral college, close the books on the controversial past and open a new chapter to open america's exceptionalism, give donald trump, mike pence, and the cabinet members to be confirmed and foresight to govern with humility and to point with conviction based on our traditional values and our nation's great constitution. ss their families, loved
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ones, colleagues, and peers. bless the governor, members and senate of the house, the electoral college, and it are telling the of our nation as a whole. america, and all the people say amen. >> amen. >> say amen again. >> amen. >> thank you. nominations are now in order for the chair of the 20 16th presidential electoral college. i will now recognize an individual for the purpose of making a nomination. >> doing a hell of a job.
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governor snyder: thank you. thank you, hank. do we have a second? we have a second. our nominations are closed. thank you. all in favor of governor rick snyder for the chair of the 2016 electoral college signify by saying aye. governor rick snyder is unanimously elected as chairman of the electoral college. please be seated, and thank you for that honor. >> [indiscernible] you are anyder: little out of order, but sure with us. >> [indiscernible] snyder: you have a statement you would like to
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make? [indiscernible] >> [indiscernible] snyder: all in favor say aye.all opposed say nay. you may read your statement. >> whereas the signers of the constitution understood the natural instinct a man to govern in such a way to benefit themselves, loved ones, and those who may profit from them, and whereas our founding fathers, guided by divine intervention, created a systems of checks and balances described in the constitution of the united states, and whereas no president in the united states of america has ever been elected
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andirect popular vote, whereas article 2 section one state each state shall appoint in such a manner a number of electors equal to the whole ander of senators representatives to which that state may be entitled in the congress, but no senator or representative or person holding office of trust or profit under the united states shall be andinted an elector, whereas the state of michigan has two senators and 14 u.s. representatives, so michigan is allotted 16 collectors. these collectors are allotted to their state conventions with the party having two at-large appointed position. whereas rock and donald j. trump vote, the popular winning 306 of the 270 electors
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needed to secure his place in history as our 45th president of the united states of america, we thegnize and thank following electors for their willingness to serve in the electoral process and regulate being being the -- bestowed the honor of representing the great state of michigan. thank you. governor snyder: thank you. [applause] governor snyder: thank you. you can't please provide a copy of that to the secretary for the minutes, please. appoint the to lieutenant governor, the as assistantstate chairs. thank you for your services.
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the senate majority leader is secretary, the assistant secretary, speaker of the house is parliamentarian, and state is assistante parliamentarian. thank you for your service. [applause] governor snyder: i have not people to be asked cheyenne they are today. thank you for sharing with us. and thank you for your assistance. the role of official electors ofl now be -- the roll official collectors will now be called. electoral at-large -- just yell here. elector at large joseph --
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first district john -- second district jack holmes -- third district kelly mitchell -- fourth district judy -- fifth district henry -- --th district robert seventh district -- ross --istrict ninth district michael -- --h district brian -- 11thstrict ken district ken -- 12 district marriage ---- mary -- all of electors are present.
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the chief justice justice without give the oath of office. chief justice? chief justice: thank you. there are many occasions. i have been blessed none more poignant than this. will the electors please stand and raise your right hand. looks like all of you figured out the right hand. ok, good. now, do you solemnly swear that he was support the constitution of the united states and the constitution of this state and that you will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of elector of president and vice president of the united states according to the best of your ability? congratulations. [applause]
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governor snyder: i would now like to appoint the sergeant at electoralhe 2016 college. the fourth congressional district. and you please be recognized. would you please be recognized. thank you for your service. nominations are now in order for the office of president of the united states. i now recognize michael for the purpose of a nomination. michael: i stand before you today with a high honor and manilege of nominating a who carried the hopes and dreams of millions of michiganers and aericans on official others,
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man who has been given the opportunity to restore the american dream which has been out of reach for so many americans for for too long. i ask all of you stand for me o support today donald j. trump for thhe president of the united states of america. [applause] governor snyder: thank you for that nomination. do i have a second? are there any other nominations for office for president of the united states? kerry non-, i call for a vote by ballot. none,d like to -- hearing
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i call for a vote by ballot. i would like to call on the sergeant at arms. please indicate your vote on the ballot by signing your name after the candidate of your preference.
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,overnor snyder: sergeants would you please collect the balance and telling them. -- tally them.
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>> thank you. governor snyder: donald j. trump receives 16 electoral votes from the state of michigan. [applause]
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governor snyder: it is very exciting. we have number -- we have more work to be done. nominations are now in order for the office of vice president of the united states. >> mr. chairman, it is an honor to nominate governor mike pence for vice president of the united states. governor snyder: i appreciate that.
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do we have a second? we have a second. are there any other nominations for the office of vice president of the united states? none, i call for a vote by ballot. sergeants, we you please distribute ballots for the office of vice president of the united states. governor snyder: please indicate on your vote by writing the name of the candidate of your preference.
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governor snyder: sergeants, please collect the balance and ally them. governor snyder: it is good we have the next generation of democracy up in front with us.
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pleased toyder: i am report mike pence received all 16 votes from the state of michigan. [applause] governor snyder: congratulations
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to donald trump and mike pence for their elections. thank you for your good work. we have more work to be done. we will put you to work again. it is time to sign certificates of vote for president and vice president. each official electoral or must sign each of the six certificates to certified donald j. trump for the office of president of the united states and mike pence for the office of vice president of united it. to come all of electors up and sign certificates. the sergeant at arms will release the electors one by one. so i will ask you to come forward and sign six times, and the sergeant will come get you to put your signatures down.
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[no audio] audio]
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host: courtesy of michigan cities,elevision for the electoral vote of michigan going to donald trump, one of key states, michigan, pennsylvania -- no audio]
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host: the scene in lansing, michigan, one of the three states that turned the election for donald trump. pennsylvania and wisconsin flipping from blue to red. you can see the map from the november 8 results, and today in state capitals and washington the electoral college meeting to certify the election to elect donald trump as our 45th president. there had been an effort by hamilton electors to stop the process. phone lies are open. host: our coverage began in illinois.
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also in michigan, the electors began to me, and bill clinton on hand. we will go back to lansing, michigan, and we will see what is happening as they wrap up proceedings there. [no audio] host: what you are seeing is the video, but there is no audio. that is that feed from michigan television, the senate tv, and there is the governor, who is thanking those electors casting their ballots for donald trump. william on the phone. your thoughts on this monday in december? caller: my question is there is a lot of people signing petitions to do away with the electoral college. my question is, why can't
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something be done with electoral college to make it reflect popular vote more and more often and more fairly? host: would you want to completely disband electoral college proceedings? caller: no. i do not seeing doing away with it because it would do away with the senate. why can't they make a change in the college to make it reflect the popular vote nationwide more than it does? host: ok, thanks for the call. , west virginia. independent line. good on the air -- you are on the air. ay.ittle bit of a dely let's go to tiffany. good afternoon, to. you are on the air. your thoughts of the voting going along in state capitals. caller: [indiscernible] host: thanks for the call.
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let's listen in to the governor of michigan. governor snyder: we're asking you to get up and make another trip. this is in line with healthy michigan. you are getting your -- in today. no audio] explain when we get these feeds from state capitals around the country, we are a holden to the audio and video, so we apologize. we wanted to get a sense of everything that was happening in lansing. we heard from the governor, but the official proceedings are now over, and michigan's electoral votes are going to donald trump. we will see what will happen in
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albany, new york earlier this arernoon, and we were -- we keeping an eye on austin, texas. ine, youremocrats' l thoughts? caller: by can we have clinton win because donald trump rigged election with russia? we should have clinton win. host: missouri, independent line. t hello? please go ahead. -- host: please go ahead. you got to turn the volume that. caller: i was wanting to make a comment. hello? if you get through, please turn the volume down.
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republican line, georgia. caller: i want to know why all they do away with the constitution, electoral college liberals, because it is toing -- to keep doing this, all of a sudden doing away with it because they are not helping because of the outcome of the election. --ust want to know why do [indiscernible] host: thank you. robert from the bronx, new york. good afternoon. caller: good afternoon. a lot of these democrats -- there is nothing. that is why i believe we should since hillary clinton wins vote in new york,
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then 6% of the vote in new york should go to her. [indiscernible] host: thanks for the call. we welcome our listeners on c-span radio. houston, texas. next, independent line. go ahead, please. caller: hi. i enjoyed the lesson today on government law and everything, but let's drill down on the current events. the left are claiming the russians hacked this election. so that seems to be pushing the reason for wanting the electors to change the vote from their state citizenry. took place and an
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intelligence briefing today. i am curious, does anyone on this panel or anyone listening, is it really believable that the russians hacked our election? this is not a serious question. this is pretty much an exercise in futility. i do not understand. russians hacked everything that is heck of a in the u.s., but there is zero evidence that the russians hacked the selection. but the charade goes on, and my point is why are we even having is why are we even having hamiltonte about electors right now, why are we having this debate? host: the c-span in the
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classroom project. the message you want to get to our 45th president. we look forward to showing you those in the new year. arizona, go ahead, please. caller: good morning. thank you for the show. i enjoy watching us. host: it is a civics lesson. caller: i majored in history and business in school. what a find interesting is how many voters do not understand the electoral college, number one. number two, they talk about the popular vote, but with the electoral college, each candidate is getting the electoral votes that they won the popular vote in. sincead no complaints this is not a national vote. i remember when this has happened before. this happened five times in our history. 1876, 1888, 2000, and now.
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i do not remember this happening in 2000. what is really happening is these activists, some i do not think understand what they're doing, is the democrats have wanted a popular vote pushed. there is a person in arizona who pushed it and a bunch of republicans went along with them. if we had a popular vote only can than the east coast, the far northeast of the country, nor your, and the scores -- the west coast would dictate to the country who are president is, and our founders did not want that because they originated the country, as the gentleman said, they knew the populated states would control the rest of the country, and that in and of itself would cause a great deal of disorder. that is what i think america needs to understand. as a process that should bps will and transitional, and all --se people watching
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marching in the streets and threatening people going to electoral colleges, i do not get. you had an election. . in two, four years, you will have another one. would you expect us to sit back and accept it as we expect you to? you lost. do not try to change the rules after the game is over. you had a flawed candidate with flawed policies. -- not saying mr. trump the only talks about deporting criminal illegals and if you look up the word "criminal," everybody in the country is illegal. up, go back to night school, take civics, grow up, behavior shelves, understand this is part of life.
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it always has been. a. nixon lost in 1960 on popular vote that most people think was graveyards in chicago. they can't we have the right to vote for some of the countries we are doing business do not. i want to thank you for allowing me to speak. host: absolutely. a couple of tweaks we want to share. one viewer saying if the electoral votes were awarded proportionally, the states would lead to gerrymandering of the electorate. so proud of the elect chores, adding thanks for your coverage at c-span. we are glad to give you a chance to see how this process is unfolding. longmont, colorado, republican line, good afternoon. you are next. whole: and after this fiasco with all the dirtiness that came out and the wikileaks, i changed to republican.
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i think it is a great day today for trump, and i also think that people who are still thinking it was russia that was involved in election -- i do not believe it. wikileaks has come out and said, no, it was not. host: thank you, and marvin is next from augusta, georgia. independent line. go ahead. caller: hi. it is my understanding in order to get rid of the electoral a constitutional amendment would be needed, which i believe requires the vote of 2/ of the country3's states. i wanted to know if somebody could verify that. state the question again, just so i have a clearer. caller: it is my understanding in order to change the constitution in this particular case, do away with the electoral college, that the country needs
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-- -- majority?rlie? yes. it would have to go back to the states because inherently foundation of the country is states' rights. majorityiven the vast of the states would consider themselves as small states and therefore favor the electoral college that that ratification of that amendment would not occur. thanks, and you have a good holiday. host: new york next, irene, democrats' lines. hello, you are on the air. air -- you are on the host: delaware, republican line. caller: hello. yes, i just wanted to -- i appreciate the gentleman before
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was talking about the electoral -- i totally agree with what he this was installed to that we would not have powers of other states trying to control the elections. i am all for the electoral votes. republican, democrat, i think it brings up a -- it is not-- and even a constitutional thing we are doing. host: thank you. final step in this process, a long campaign during primaries, caucuses, debates, today's electoral college vote, will conclude next january 6, and we will have live coverage in the senate where vice president biden will ratify the senate -- the vote to make donald trump
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the president of the united states. caller: hi, thank you. i wanted to say that i felt the electoral college was very important, that i was really kind of dismay that i heard that there were people who were trying to say it should be done away with because i think that it is very important, and our ofnders set that up because the importance of it being a fair election and making sure that the wrong people do not get in just because they might get the popular vote. a goody not really have -- their intentions might not necessarily be for the good of everyone. host: thank you for the call. what you have seen during the course of the afternoon, video feeds coming from state capitals? we should point out there is no official feet from austin, texas. we are monitoring local news
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coverage, and we go getting that feet into us. a lot of attention on a republican elector who is so-called a faithless elector . if we can share that with you, we will do so. we were able to cover from new york the electoral college vote meeting earlier, and all of this really airing in our primetime coverage tonight. right now we will take you back to illinois, where earlier today the process began to a state that went for hillary clinton and its 20 electoral phones. coverage from 11:00 eastern time, 10:00 in springfield, illinois. [no audio]
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>> this day is proclaimed as -- day forecasting votes four casting electoral votes for the president and vice president of the united states. i asked all the lecturers and guests to turn off cell phones and pagers at this time. please rise and join us for the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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>> it is my great pleasure to introduce the secretary of state jesse white who will serve as the temporary chair until the electors selected a permanent chair. chairman white question mark chairman white -- chairman white? hasrman white: media requested permission to broadcast and record these proceedings. thesemy honor to open proceedings in springfield. in addition to the electors who will be introduced, i would like to recognize a few individuals. danny davis, congressman of the seventhdanny davis, congressmane
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seventh congressional district, happens to be my congressman. john, the president of the illinois state senate. when the public went to the polls on november 8, and voted for their preferred candidate for that president and vice president, they were voting for presidential and vice presidential electors. his electors from 50 states and the district of columbia our meeting today to officially elected -- select our president and vice president. in illinois we're gathering for the 50th meeting of the illinois electoral college. there are 20 illinois electors representing the majority wishes residents13 million of illinois. as required by law, copies of the certified vote will be sent to the president of the united states senate and the national archives and the chief federal judge for this district. also will maintain additional copies of the certification of the vote for public inspection. in order for this business to
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proceed, i would like to have the roll call. each elector shall respond by saying present. district one. >> present. >> district two. district three. ent.res .> district four present. >> district five. >> present. .istrict six >> present.
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district seven. >> present. >> district eight. >> present. >> district nine. >> present. >> district 10. >> present. >> district 11. >> present. arehe chair declares there 18 of the 20 electors for president and vice president are in attendance. electors carrie austin and john daly are unable to attend today's proceedings. in accordance with the provision of the illinois statutes, the remaining presidential electors must elect a replacement to the
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vacant seats. in accordance with the statute, i hear a motion to nominate a replacement elector. >> thank you, secretary white, mr. chairman. i nominate patrick daley thompson to serve as an elector to serve in place of carrie austin. william brant jr. to serve in place of john daly. >> patrick daley thompson has been nominated two serve in place of carrie austin, and william brant jr. to serve in place of john daly. do i have a second? elector taveras has seconded the nomination. are there other nominations? there being none, all those in
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favor say aye. those who oppose say no. the ayes have it. with those replacements named, we now have 20 electors. the nominations are now open for chair and secretary of today's proceedings. the gentleman is recognized. >> it is my privilege to place the name of tony -- into nomination as chairperson, sherri -- as secretary. quiet these individuals have been nominated. do i hear a second? >> i second that motion. >> the elector has seconded the nomination. are there other nominations? there being none, those in favor say aye. those oppose say no.
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the ayes have it, and the motion has been adopted. i would like to turn it over now to the chairperson. >> all electors will be voting two ballots, one for president of the united states, one for vice president of the united states. the ballots are located at your desk. please mark each with your preferred candidate. as i call each elector's name, you will step forward and place your marked ballot in the ballot box located to our right along the wall. i will now begin the rollcall for casting the ballots of the office of president and vice president. elector, please step forward and cast your vote.
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elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote.
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elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step
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forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote.
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just one vote for president. elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. inaudible]
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>> elector, please step forward nd cast your vote.
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elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. to


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